now for basic research? >> i think the answer to that is no. when you're talking about medical research. and i believe that all of us have a responsibility, and that includes the universities, the private sector, n.i.h., whatever, to explain better exactly what medical research has produced in this country. it's an amazing record not only in terms of jobs but in terms of cures for people. i don't think members of congress understand that. i don't think the public necessarily understands how it happened. >> one of the things in going forward is to say what are the measures of productivity, what are the measures for the money that's being invested now? quickly, we have a little bit of time now, from dan, what are your ideas? how should the productivity of the money that n.i.h. invests in research be measured and be reported? >> well, it's very complex. i think we first have to start with that because you have to realize most of the discoveries, they start in little pleases and they add up to a cure -- pieces and they add up to a cure.